On Ethical Buying, Storytelling, and Comfort Zones – Senem Konuklu

In part 2 of our interview with Senem Konuklu, we discussed how we have the power to create the shift towards ethical buying in the localization industry.

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In part 2 of our interview with Senem Konuklu, we discussed how we have the power to create the shift towards ethical buying in the localization industry.

We also got a bit more personal and talked about water-cooler chats, storytelling being trendy, and pushing people outside of their comfort zones.


Andrej Zito 

Senem, welcome back again to part two.

Senem Konuklu 

Thank you.  Thank you for the opportunity, then.

Andrej Zito 

This is the first time that I’m doing part one and part two separately with someone. So let’s see how this goes. Yes, because normally we do it in. You know, I’m famous for my very long term interviews, which take two to three hours. So anyway, so this is your chance to practice storytelling. Yes, this is your personal development program. Brought to you by the Localization Podcast. Anyway, so let’s kick off with this thing? We’re not that far in 2021. Are you seeing like a different, let’s say, not mindset, but like, the vibe in your company, compared to 2020? Once COVID started, like, are people more used to it? Are they more optimistic?

Senem Konuklu 

Well, I felt a little bit pessimism actually this year in 2020. Last year, sorry. But we have just moved with the new year, we are celebrating the new fiscal year at the moment. That’s why I still say last year, sorry about that. Well, I felt kind of pessimism, but also, you know, I can see that people got used to working remotely. And so that was a relief. And also, like I told you, we completed f by 20 just now. And I can see a very, you know, very strong celebration from the top managements. We’re remote. We worked remotely. And we did very well. And they couldn’t say thank you enough, they found they used all the opportunity to thank us that we worked remotely. And we have done very well. Especially, you know, then the think about digital marketing activities, and my organization. So I think that something motivated us. Because it wasn’t easy, it wasn’t easy, and I could feel it in my team as well. Well, I could feel the ups and downs. But I think they made us the top management, they made us, you know, start the year, more energetically and enthusiastically. So that was something good. And that’s what’s you know, kept you motivated, as well. And I’m kind of excited.

Andrej Zito 

What about you personally, like, Senem one year ago? Like, I’m trying to think about how you reacted to the whole COVID situation? Because I know that a lot of people like started freaking out and like, Oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. And I was just like, happy that I can just stay at home and work from home, you know, I don’t have to. So how did you react to it initially?

Senem Konuklu 

Well, my situation was also unique, because my son was born last year in March. And it was a time but after a month later, pandemic started and there was a lockdown. And in August, I started working again, I was back to work. And, you know, I was already there was already a change in my life. I was trying to be a parent. It was trying to be a mother. So that was already a change that I’m going through. And working remotely helped me very much in that sense, because after six months, he was born and I started working. And I really cannot imagine leaving him at home and living for work. And now Well, I came to a conclusion that it was how it was supposed to be that I needed to work from home. Because I have a kid. I cannot leave him alone. And that’s why everything was easy for me one year later.

Andrej Zito 

What are you excited about like in this year? You know, you mentioned that your fiscal year just started but I assume they’re more exciting things. Starting the fiscal year so for you, like personally, like, what are you looking forward to in this year?

Senem Konuklu 

Well, of course, I’m waiting for this to come to an end. And I want to go out more, it’s also frustrating, I cannot visit my parents, they are living in another city. I cannot visit, you know, my brother, etc, my close relatives. And that’s something frustrating. So I’m really looking forward looking forward it to come to an end, and hope the vaccines work. And I’m kind of excited about this. And I’m excited about the new normal as well. So we are thinking, as an organization, we are thinking going to work, maybe two days a week and three days we will work from home, vice versa, etc. So this also, you know, exciting for me, because I like changes. Actually, I normally, if I, you know didn’t have a son, I would definitely maybe going to work going to the office because I like seeing people socializing. We had this work from home option, but I didn’t use it at all. I always, you know, went to work because I like being in the office.

Andrej Zito 

I really like though, I really like the water cooler person who hangs out around the water cooler and just chits.

Senem Konuklu 

Yeah, if I have time, yes. Why not? Yeah, I do.

Andrej Zito 

Is there like, like, even like a sort of a strategy behind all this chitchat? Because I will tell you honestly, like some time ago, when I was really like the guy who would just come to the office, put on my headphones and just work work work. I used to really resent the people who would just go around and just chit chat, because I was like, when are you actually working? But I assume that maybe like, from your perspective, if you’re a manager that maybe just like this occasional chit chats actually help, like open up the people to tell you some other things? Or did you also talk to them like about personal things, and not just work?

Senem Konuklu 

Yes, of course, not just work.

Andrej Zito 

Is it just because you want to like connect with the people? Or is there? Is there something more to it like?

Senem Konuklu 

Well, it depends on the situation, if well, I like chatting with my team, and getting to know them personally, and getting to know you know, what’s going on in their life. And what are they excited about? Well, my team is multicultural team as well. So it’s always nice to learn, you know, other cultures, and your habits, etc. So I use, you know, this time to get to know more. And yeah, I also, you know, try to find the opportunities to get connected with other teams as well. Other managers.

Andrej Zito 

Yeah, with your stakeholders, right? Yeah, I just remembered right, that was the topic of our discussion. So do you do you think that actually, this chit chat is technically part of your stakeholder management role? I think it is. No,

Senem Konuklu 

it is, of course, you know, it says, but you know, it used to be, but I need to admit it. Because the first company I worked for it was a sales company. And so the training staff, but I wasn’t a salesperson, I was a marketing specialist. But still, the psychology of the people working there kind of was based on selling and human behavior, psychology, etc. Because the trainings we received were around that. So somehow, I was more interested in getting to know the people. And by asking questions, engage with them, because I was really interested in getting to know them. But I need to admit that localization industry where I need to think more, you know, structurally more analytically, so I need to trust on the numbers and everything so it made me a little bit how can I say it changed me? So it doesn’t always come natural that I want to talk to people want to get to know them more? Because especially at work, so there’s a job that we all need to get done. So let’s get it done. So there’s no need for a chat etc. But I I’m kind of somewhere in between, at the moment. So there are times, you know, I’m more talkative, and there are times I concentrate on the job and the task that needs to be done. So yeah, I need to admit that I’m in between.

Andrej Zito 

I assume that the end of the fiscal year is not the right time to go and check around, right?

Senem Konuklu 

No, no, it’s the right time.

Andrej Zito 

It is actually? Really?

Senem Konuklu 

Because the last month of the fiscal year, it’s the most challenging, because there are lots of fear and tasks that you need to do, and you need to do everything correctly. Because when the new year comes, you cannot undo things, you cannot change things, it becomes a mistake. And it’s written on your face. It’s a mistake, you don’t do it next year. So I kind of left that period. So it’s the time

Andrej Zito 

What I was actually wanted to wanted to learn is that you know, like, when people are stuck at home, a lot of them actually spend more time on Netflix, but a lot of them actually, like started learning something new, which maybe they wouldn’t have started otherwise. So I’m wondering, is there something that you picked up during, let’s say the last year?

Senem Konuklu 

Yes, of course, you know, there’s a very famous concept right now, storytelling,

Andrej Zito 

Storytelling 101 with Senem?

Senem Konuklu 

Yes. In fact, I couldn’t imagine that. It should be something that you could improve. It should be a very, you know, hot topic, maybe trendy topic. I didn’t expect it but somehow, yes, it is a trending topic. And there are even you know, trainings on storytelling. So I’m trying to, you know, do a lot myself on storytelling on, you know, personal development. And I, you know, like, I mentioned before the record that I am a member of women in localization. So I trying to build a network, and do some volunteering jobs. I also volunteer to become mentors. So I’m interested in personal development, for myself, and also for my team. So it is, somehow I feel like I’m came, I came to an age that I can help people more. But I also, you know, need to overcome myself.

Andrej Zito 

Yeah, so maybe it, maybe this is this is where you could practice your storytelling, because what is interesting to me is that you mentioned that you see that this is a trend to think. So how did that trend actually reach you? Like, why do you think it’s trendy? Because storytelling is not a it’s not a new thing? Right? Like the people from marketing, they have been using it for ages, you know, like, parents use storytelling for their kids, and so on. So tell me like how that trend reached you. For you to actually think it’s something that’s trendy and that you need to learn?

Senem Konuklu 

Oh, very good question. I think, for me, it became it became trendy after COVID. Because so during this pandemic, everything is online at the moment, there are podcasts, virtual meetings. So there are lots of opportunities that people, you know, talk on something, for example, Instagram Live meetings. So the experts go live, and they talk about things, right. So it became important how you talk about, right? How you, you know, tell something, how you tell your story, and how you tell your expertise, et cetera. So I think after this COVID periods, it became trendy for me. I don’t know if I answered correctly, but yeah, that’s how I think.

Andrej Zito 

But did you like naturally notice, like people’s storytelling abilities? Or did you listen to, let’s say, a podcast where people were talking about storytelling?

Senem Konuklu 

Yes, I think so. The word storytelling is being used more often lately. And I don’t know also, for personal development cases. Yeah, I hear I more often hear people talk about this storytelling, storytelling. And I what I noticed is that so in the past, we used to get trainings on presentation skills, you know, the company provides you those trainings. And now, it is storytelling training, if they don’t call it presentation skills anymore. Yeah. So that’s, that’s what I noticed. And presentation skills. So it seems very, it reads very formal, it’s like something you can only use at work. But storytelling is something you can use in your personal life as well. So that’s, that’s why I call it you know, trendy

Andrej Zito 

Trendy for you?

Senem Konuklu 

So it was always there for you?

Andrej Zito 

Not always, but I also like started, you know, like, like, when I listened to like, startup or entrepreneurship, podcasts, entrepreneurs talk a lot about storytelling. Actually, like a lot of the tratando the VCs, or like the successful entrepreneurs, they actually say that one of your main role as an entrepreneur is to be good at storytelling, because you need to tell stories to either investors or your team or your customers and so on. So, so through the storytelling, the you convince people, which is basically what you’re doing. I think the the thought that I had in my mind was that, you know, when in, I think in the first part, we were talking about, you know, like working with a technical team, and then you need to present the technical features, to stakeholders who don’t understand we’re not interested in the details, right? And we think we established it, you want to look at it, like from the value perspective, from the ROI and from the numbers, right? So that’s like the next level, and then maybe like storytelling, he’s like, the level above it. Like, like, why? Actually, we need those numbers and so on. So it’s like, one package?

Senem Konuklu 

I agree. Yes. And maybe it’s worth mentioning that in recruitment processes, right now, in interviews, they have this STAR technique. You know, the interviewer asked questions, a question. And so the candidates, they are expecting candidate to use a STAR technique to explain their experiences, or to explain a project or talented project they worked. So STAR technique, it’s storytelling methods, actually, you start with a situation you continue with a task, action and results. So it tells you how you should tell your story about a particular project. So it’s, it’s one of the, you know, tools, and they’ll start technique, maybe it was always there. But now the company is actually tells you, okay, I will ask you a question in the interview. And I expect you give the answer using a STAR technique.

Andrej Zito 

Right? When we talk about storytelling, what I’m thinking about is, what I heard is that you’re starting to have a beginning, middle, and an end, which technically sort of aligns with the STAR based on what you explained, because like, you kind of like set up the situation, then you like get it to a point. And then there’s the ending the happy ending?

Senem Konuklu 

Exactly. You list the actions and you list the tasks and you tell them how you take how they started taking actions and what was the result? So exactly.

Andrej Zito 

This is a new question that I have never asked anyone. It’s a good one. What made you feel like a happy joyful child recently? And the reason why I like this question is that I think, you know, like, when kids are, well, you can know from your son, right? Like when he’s happy, like he’s happy. Because the young children, they cannot fake anything. So it’s like that, you know, that pure pure joy, pure excitement. So, when is this that something like that happened to you?

Senem Konuklu 

Okay, when was the time that I felt happiest?

Andrej Zito 

No, like, what was the what was the most recent moment where you felt like this joyful child?

Senem Konuklu 

Hmm, now that question, well, when a one year old kid around, well, of course, Right, right I feel it, well, more often, you know, he poops and I feel very happy after three days for example. Ben was you know, when he started when he you know, started you know, answering you and when he you know, starts reacting your questions, etc. That was a very happy moment. And other than that, well, I can say it’s a bit work related, but so I’m, you know, working with my team and we are also I’m also working on their, you know, personal developments. So when I give them tasks, challenging tasks, without much, you know, support, and when they, you know, make something on their own, I really feel happy. They Well, it means that oh, my God, they, you know, try to do something. And then yeah, they did something what they did is correct. And they did it with little support. And it shows that the mentoring I that was successful. And that really made me happy. And I’ve seen that a lot. You know, these days in my team. That really made me happy. I can say that.

Andrej Zito 

Do you try to do try to push your people into like outside of their comfort zone?

Senem Konuklu 

Of course, yeah. Yes, yes. I do it very often, because I can understand from their tone. Okay, I asked them a question I or SQL reports. They become like, Oh, really? How and why is another? But when they did when they did it? In the end, they say, Oh, it was very good. I learned a lot at cetera. I really like it.

Andrej Zito 

But here I am here. I am very curious, because I would like your advice on this, because this is something that they haven’t cracked yet. So how do you know when pushing someone into something is good for them? And how do you know when you push them into something, which is actually not for them?

Senem Konuklu 

Actually, in the end, they decide, okay, if they, you know, really come up with something in the end, if they say that, Oh, it was really helpful, they really learned it, it means that your push was necessary. And well, I think, you know, maybe you cannot understand it, but you need to try. And in your second when you, you know come together the next time if they, you know show you something that they did something, well, they get excited anyway, they, when they work on something out of their comfort zone, if they learned it, they get excited, and they do more, and they build on it. But if they don’t feel if they don’t show any enthusiasm, if they didn’t do anything, it means that they are not eager to do it. But maybe that’s what you wanted them to do wasn’t the right thing for them.

Andrej Zito 

Right? Okay, I’ll make this a little bit more complicated. Okay. So let’s, let’s, let’s let’s, I don’t know, let’s let’s think about the example of storytime. Okay, let’s say you think storytelling is trendy. So now you want all your team to be able to do good storytelling? Yeah, I tell them, but let’s say I’m an I’m an introverted engineer. And I really have no intention of becoming good at storytelling, because it’s actually not that important for my work. And then you come to me and you say, okay, Andre, I want you to get better at storytelling. And so I tried, and I’m not good at it. So how do you know that? After the first attempt, is it because I just lacked some skills or need more practice? Or maybe how do you know that this task, like storytelling, is actually not really like, I don’t have the time for that? Because, you know, like, like, for example, like, for example, I don’t know, like, public speaking, like, many people can just resent it. And because of that, because like, in turn internally, like in their mind, you know, they think like, okay, like, this is not for me, and because of that they either underperform or they’re not excited. But how do you know, like, how can you know, like, if, if, if they are saying no to something, but you know, it’s actually good for them, like you have seen something like in them at some moment, like two weeks ago, which told you that, okay, that guy could be good at public speaking, but normally, that person actually resents public speaking. They don’t want to do it, but you know, like, like, hey, like, like, if you pushed through it, like, it’s like, it’s like in your head, but if you get really lucky, would actually be the best public speaker in the world.

Senem Konuklu 

Yeah, it’s a good one. But first of all, Andrej, it’s in your performance review. It’s one of your targets. It’s one of your targets. So you need to improve this and you have a very good English. So in the meetings, you can really shine. Just use that opportunity. You know, try to set up more meetings. And don’t just use you know, teams to, to text the people to get connected. So find some opportunities and set up online meetings. So if you are not comfortable, so let’s do it internally, let’s try to find some some topics that you can tell us in the team meeting. So you feel feel more comfortable. So from that, let’s talk again, if you felt, you know, enthusiastic about it, if you feel more confident now, so after one or two meetings, maybe you can give a public speech with wider audience. So what do you think?

Andrej Zito 

Like a slow gradual steps?

Senem Konuklu 

Yes.

Andrej Zito 

Okay.

Senem Konuklu 

I don’t know, did you feel more comfortable now?

Andrej Zito 

That was there was just just an example. Like, I think I would be scared. I was also talking about the public speaking with, with Dave, we recently…

Senem Konuklu 

it happens, especially with, you know, young people who started working recently when they are, you know, in their first job, but it happens. It’s only normal. Right. And I understand that, and that’s why with little steps, I try to build on it. And I think the virtual meetings help. They don’t, you know, need to be present in the meeting room when everybody’s looking at them. So which will meetings, it’s a very good place for people, you know, to get used to it, to get better at it.

Andrej Zito 

What is something that people seem to misunderstand about you?

Senem Konuklu 

Good question. Of course, people, you know, misunderstand me from time to time. So maybe I can give you this example, then, you know, I feel a conflict between, you know, two people in the same room, I try not to take sides. But, you know, when two people, you know, argue they look at you all the time, and they want some kind of expression from you. Are you on my side or not? This kind of look are neutral. And that’s really actually make people kind of irritated they too, they think that I don’t take sides, but I actually. Of course, I’m on either of them side. So I should take sides. But I since there’s a conflict, since they are, you know, raising their voice, I try to be neutral, I don’t comment. You know, I mind my own business. validating, I’m natural, but after that, after, you know, the conflict is resolved. And then I start to comment on it, then I start, comment on my real feelings. That can be a misunderstanding,

Andrej Zito 

Maybe let me let me try to give you like, what I mean is, like, let’s say let’s say, let’s say you have a new team member in your team. They just joined Sony, they join your team. And you start working with them, so on so on, so on. And then after, I don’t know, half, half a year later, you have one on one with this person that this person that comes to you and says, send me know, like, when I first met you, I thought you were like x, but after I got to know you, I see that you were actually the opposite. You know, like let’s say like, let’s say something like what do people typically think about you like on the first impression like during the first meetings, but you think but you actually know that that’s not true?

Senem Konuklu 

Hmm, yeah, of course they would think that I’m introvert because well, I used to be you know, more extrovert because of my you know, previous experiences. Like I mentioned, after I joined this industry, I became more introvert. And so I’m kind of act on people’s, you know, tasks, etc. So that’s why they would think that I’m more reserved. Not very easygoing, I actually Yes. Huertas. Well, experts Yes. For example. When you know, there are teams that you don’t I don’t really necessarily work with them. They are not necessarily my stakeholders. So my engagements, it can be low with them. But I remember a call like that I was in the situation. But together we went to we went to affair abroad, it was in UK Adobe fair. So it was a very good one anyway, we hang out together all day. And that was a party, the better a party. And I was, you know, after one or two during I started making jokes I tried to be the I was, you know, funnier than ever. And yeah, I can be very, you know, funny.

Andrej Zito 

So that’s part three of our interview, right? With drinks

Senem Konuklu 

Why not? Well, no, I’m breastfeeding. Maybe a year later? Well, I can be good at making jokes. You know, if I’m in good mood. And she was surprised, she said that, Oh, I didn’t know that you were like this, you are totally a different person. And I said, Yes. Could be at work. Well, not necessarily at work. But you know, if I really in good mood, I can be more easygoing, you know, relaxed, that can be something that people misunderstand about me. That I’m not funny. I’m a very formal person.

Andrej Zito 

Right. Right. Right. Yeah, I think maybe that’s what I would have thought before our first interview. Yeah, maybe? Because during the the first introduction call that we have the were a little bit more on the safer side, I would say. Do you think that like you open up to people, once you know them a little bit more? Is it like you’re a little bit cautious with with strangers?

Senem Konuklu 

Yes, I’m more cautious with strangers. And also, it depends on you know, how you frame response to my How do you you know, make the field you make me feel much more, you know, relaxed, if you are willing to, you know, listen to my story. So, it changes everything?

Andrej Zito 

Yes. Does the text on my wall make you feel more comfortable or…

Senem Konuklu 

Feel more comfortable?

Andrej Zito 

So, you know, what I’m curious about, you know, you mentioned the few drinks? So, do you think that people when they’re drinking, there may be like tipsy or drunk? Do you think they’re more of themselves? Or the alcohol brings up someone else?

Senem Konuklu 

I think it changes from people. It changes from person to person, definitely. Because, you know, there are people who doesn’t remember anything after they drink? So that’s five out for me. Yes, of course. But I should also, you know, get one or two to be more relaxed, but after two, it’s a different story. You know, I can also forget things.

Andrej Zito 

Right? But but that’s, that’s like, what happens after you go over and what happens after but, you know, like, when people are drunk, you know, they behave in a certain way, do you think that this behavior is, is just within them? And they’re containing it within because of, you know, like, the social norms or what other people would think if they did it when they were sober? And sort of like the alcohol like, takes off the filters? Or do you think that alcohol actually changes people when they’re drunk?

Senem Konuklu 

Again, it changes from person to person, but in my case, I think that’s where it was right, that I’m kind of removing the filter. And I don’t act cautiously anymore. Yeah, that I can be, you know, more relaxed, and I can be myself I think, yeah, be yourself.

Andrej Zito 

It is important. Yes. Yes.

Senem Konuklu 

And also somehow, you know, it makes me you know, easy going more confident about the words I say.

Andrej Zito 

Yeah, I have the same thing with you. But I think like our goal, you know, like when you talk about the person development, like our goal should be to be ourselves, even without the few drinks.

Senem Konuklu 

I think, yes, but also there is this, you know, emotional intelligence, that you need to act, according to the situation. You need to control manage your feelings. So you if you’re angry, you shouldn’t always show that you’re angry, right? So on the other hand, we have that as well. And it is also something I’m working on at the moment, I’m trying to read a book on emotional intelligence, how to, you know, manage emotions and use it in your, you know, at workplace and how you can develop yourself accordingly.

Andrej Zito 

So what is the one thing that stood out for you from that book so far?

Senem Konuklu 

Yeah, well, I’m still on the scientific part of it, that even if you are very smart, even if you are very good at what you’re doing, unless you have this emotional intelligence, you cannot be successful. And now I remembered where I heard the storytelling thing. So it’s, but I’m also reading on nurturing, you know, how to raise children, etc. So I’m listening to experts, when I have time, psychologists etc. I also, it is somehow connected to emotional intelligence. So right now, what is important, why raising our kids is to make your children control his actions, behaviors. So it is called self regulation. So they did, you know, study on that. So what makes people happy and successful, there were some kind of theories practices. So they watched, the experts watched people from early ages, like when they were born, they watched how they develop over the years until they are 50, or 60. In some countries, they didn’t. So they found out that the people who could learn how to self regulate themselves have to use their emotions, they have to use their behaviors, actions in the early ages, they became successful, they became happy. It’s not that they are rich, but they are happier. And it was proved. And now the experts they are saying that it’s very important that you teach your children how to regulate themselves, how to use their emotions, sensibly.

Andrej Zito 

Hmm.

Senem Konuklu 

So it was interesting. And I also read about this. And I also heard about this, that in, in a new era, the ages extra, we learned how to use our emotions. And that’s what makes people happy, and successful. And the expert, they Oh, he also he mentioned this in the same concepts. So self regulation is important and how you tell your story is important, right now. So you’re while raising a kid, you should raise them in a way that he is also good at storytelling. Because when I was a child, you know, when I hurt myself, if I even I fell down and I hurt myself. But when I cry, you know, people try to you know, stop me. Try to soothe me, don’t cry, nothing happened, forget about it. But now the experts saying that you should make your children explain what happened. Explain that story. So you hurt I hurt myself because I hit the table etc. So from early ages, they should be able to tell the story is so that it’s they don’t you know, bottom up the feelings etc. Yes. And they learn that your emotions. They know when they are sad. They know when they’re sorry. And it’s important. They talk about this whole hope though, it all makes sense.

Andrej Zito 

I think it does sort of here. But maybe I was a little bit conflicted because I thought that when you talk about like self regulating emotions, that you meant that like, we should like really constrain our emotions. But now I think it’s more about like sharing what the emotions are right then

Senem Konuklu 

Sharing and managing the emotions and not having the emotions that you are sad. Embrace the sadness, right? And talk about it. Yeah, yeah. tell your story.

Andrej Zito 

Yes. Going back to our industry, my notorious question, what do you think is wrong with our industry?

Senem Konuklu 

Maybe this is something that we lacked from buyer’s standpoint of field. So in my case, as a buyer, I don’t know how multilingual vendors engage with their freelancers with their contractors. So I don’t know how ethical, they are engaged, and if they are fair to them, but I think I should know. And accordingly, I should choose the vendor that I’m going to work with. I don’t know how it is done, how it can be done. But this is, again, something I think buyers, like. And this is something buyers need to work on. So that multi-lingual vendors develop themselves in this area.

Andrej Zito 

Yep. I 100% agree with you on that. Because I had my experience like I can, I could talk I also already did shit on some of the companies that I work for on the podcast. I don’t want to mention them right now. But yes, like from the from the vendor’s perspective, like when I work for them? Like I’m like wondering why the clients are working with this MLB? And it’s because they mostly look at the numbers and they go

Senem Konuklu 

Exactly, because they are reputable, yes. And they have a sustainable business, etc.

Andrej Zito 

Yes, because things are working, but they don’t look into the machine. Which is exactly what you said, like, how is how is my account actually handle? Like, how are you treating your freelancers? But the thing that I can tell you is that actually you have the power? Because like, like your your represents Sony, right? Like I think like many companies would just die to get a business with you. So the existing vendors that you have, you can just ask them like, Hey, tell me.

Senem Konuklu 

Yes, you’re right. I think when the time comes, we should be asking this question.

Andrej Zito 

We should put together some alliance like, you know, like, they’re like, a lot of the startups. I don’t know, maybe in Turkey, but like here in Canada and us, like, you know, like they are the sustainable businesses, you know, like, they do moral ethical decisions. They only work with, I don’t know, natural organic things, and so on. So that is like this. We can say it’s a trend, you know, like, working ethically in this way. So, so yes, I think this is something that will eventually need to be addressed. and looked at more than just the pure numbers

Senem Konuklu 

As a part of social responsibility. I agree.

Andrej Zito 

Yeah, exactly.

Senem Konuklu 

I think it’s that with buyers.

Andrej Zito 

It does, it does, because you have the power

Senem Konuklu 

That we need to start evaluating the multi vendors in this perspective.

Andrej Zito 

Yes, yes, absolutely. Okay, so we’re going to cut this part and put it on LinkedIn or and everybody can sign up. Citizens initiative, I know that you probably didn’t do preparation for this question. So this is the one where people struggle a lot with like finding the answers, but maybe we’ll find something. Are there any things that you change your mind about? And like something really not revolutionary, but something big, you know, like, for like a long time you thought this is the right thing. And then you read something, or you heard something, or you had some experience? And then you change, no, collect storytelling.

Senem Konuklu 

But I think I don’t have more to say about storytelling, but is this well, I changed my mind about something, but it’s not a big thing. So it is kind of an episode thing as well. So we have this concept in Turkey. I think in Arabic countries as well, the fortune telling. We read coffee cups. You know, there’s there’s special Turkish coffee that you drink. It’s very think after you drink it’s like espresso. It’s more or less the same amount a little bit. Maybe more than espresso, you drink it, but the cafe is very thick. And you close the cup, and you cool it down. When you turn it up. There are some shapes. The fortune tellers can read some shapes. Yeah. Anyway, so we had this concept. Some people believe it some people don’t believe it. But what I like at the moment is that there is a Turkish startup company, who made the application of fortune telling. So I think it’s, it’s hilarious, I find it very successful. And but normally, I don’t do that, I don’t believe in fortune telling. But this application, so you take the picture of your cup of coffee cup, after you, you know, you can see the shapes. And you, you send it to that application and artificial intelligence. So reads your person, and you know, it come up with a text, you know, we love your version, you can read your version. Anyway, I, since AI is doing that. It’s very, you know, meaningful, you can find some real things in it. And I wanted to try it because I was curious what AI thinks about me. But AI thinks about, you know, my searches and the way I use my application. Anyway, I started thinking that at first, I find it very useful because it motivates me. It says like, okay, you have to do list, but you feel energetic, and you’re going to take all the tasks in your to do list. And I was like, Oh, yes, I’m really feeling energetic today. And I will do that. It motivated me. But so this is something I changed my mind about that fortune selling. But of course, you know, after 10 or 15 times I stopped doing that. Because whenever I drink coffee, I, you know, take pictures and send it. And so in the end, it’s became meaningless. So, since I don’t believe in it anymore.

Andrej Zito 

I was gonna say that I changed my mind about the AI controlling people, because I thought that it would come later, but I see that the AI is already controlling you. You are energetic, you will do the tasks.

Senem Konuklu 

Yeah, it kind of did. And you can. And while it is actually very fake, because you can even choose the topic, what you want from fortune teller? Is she going to comment on your low life on your carriers, or general topics, you can choose anything. But the application is very, very successful. For the founder. He is very successful. And he was influenced by his mother, his mother, actually a good fortune selling. And he came up with this idea after people started sending him pictures of their coffee cup, so that he can show it to his mother and his mother can tell them stuff anyway.

Andrej Zito 

That’s a good story.

Senem Konuklu 

Well, he is live in some Arabic countries, and he’s going to open the app in Spain as well. Yeah, even my mother has that app. Now everyone has an app in their mobile phones. Yeah, it’s crazy. People really think it’s kind of how can I say they pass the time?

Andrej Zito 

Well, I used it. But then why do you think the app put a lot of fortune tellers out of business?

Senem Konuklu 

I don’t think so. Because if you really believe in it, so whenever you have the time, you can still go to a purchase and sell it. And also use the app. Yeah, because I think it is something that it’s, it makes you at addicts. It’s kind of if you believe in us, you can be addicted. I see.

Andrej Zito 

I see. Alright, so then. Well, thank you very much for the part two interview.

Senem Konuklu 

Thank you. It was pleasure.

Andrej Zito 

Thank you and see you next time. Bye bye.

Senem Konuklu 

Bye.

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