A Look Into Localization Testing – Nicolas Gerard From Symbio

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Localization testing gives companies the ability to correctly adjust their products to the regions they are aimed at, but not enough businesses give it the value that it deserves. Let’s take a look into localization testing with Nicolas Gerard from Symbio. 

Welcome to this episode of The Localization Podcast where you’ll learn about the following:

▪ What is localization testing

▪ How to become a tester

▪ The purpose of manual testing

▪ Tools used by testers

▪ The process of testing vs customers’ expectations

▪ The value of localization testing for businesses

▪ Financially irresponsible because of… toys?


Andrej Zito

Nicholas, welcome to the podcast.

Nicolas Gerard

Hi, thanks for having me.

Andrej Zito

So whereare you located right now? Let’s start with a simple one.

Nicolas Gerard

I am in Helsinki, Finland. I’m not going to give you my exact address. So nobody sent me an email

Andrej Zito

once again, but I know that you’re not a Finnish person, right,

Nicolas Gerard

you know, from friends I was born in Nice, explains the horrible accent. And yeah, just I moved to Finland 13 years ago now. And I stayed.

Andrej Zito

Why did you move to Finland?

Nicolas Gerard

I moved to Finland because I had met someone, which is the story of about 90% of the foreigners. I know here, the less than person has because they came to study because Finland is the best system in the world educational system in the world. So 10% of the foreigners here came to study the rest game because they met. Someone

Andrej Zito

let’s start by describing what is it that you do and who you work for.

Nicolas Gerard

Okay, so I work for Symbio. Symbio is a QA and development company IT company. Basically, it’s a company that is from China. But we have offices in Helsinki, in Sweden and the US, I am at the head of the localization testing team in Finland. So basically, we do localization testing, mostly manual testing, like I was mentioning to before, I have a team of about 40-45 testers from different countries, all from different native language. And we test applications, software or websites for customers in their own language, they check that the translations are correct, that everything is implemented correctly that everything looks good. And then we send back the results to the customer.

Andrej Zito

Right, right, right. This is new thing for me that it’s a Chinese company. I didn’t know that I thought it was a Finnish company. So we also deal with someone in China.

Nicolas Gerard

We have also a smaller team localization testing team in China that works for also big customers, but there is not much overlap. We have different customers in each places.

Andrej Zito

So it’s Symbio. Let’s say your first touch point with localization. That’s my usual question that I share with like how people get into localization. Was there was that how you ended up in localization? Or does it have to do something with you being French,

Nicolas Gerard

I studied to become a translator at first. So I’ve always liked languages and all that. So I studied I have a bachelor’s degree in English literature, cultural translation. I did some interpretation, though. So yeah, I studied mostly to become a translator in France. And then while I went to Finland met someone and ended up after finishing my studies moving there. Since it’s a country where everybody basically speaks English fluently, even little children. And it’s sometimes surprising. So I, it was easier for me to come here speaking English than for the girlfriend coming to France, because she didn’t speak French. And in French, there’s like, about three people that speak English. And I’m one of them’s and I left. There was only two left. And yeah, so then I found this job at while I was working at Symbio through a subcontractor at first I was just a French tester. So whenever they needed a translation in French, verify that that was my job. And slowly, I climbed the ranks, as they say. So being

Andrej Zito

a French tester was a your, let’s say, first experience with localization? Or did you do some work as a translator? Did you try to

Nicolas Gerard

I did some work as a translator before when I was still in France, but only small jobs either for smaller book bundles in a which is like comic books, French comic books, and all translations for those, or, like, not really legal subtitles for files, let’s say for series. Let’s leave it at that. That was more for fun. That was not really paid. Yeah.

Andrej Zito

Okay. So was it like your like, your like your hobby project? Or did someone actually

Nicolas Gerard

I guessso yeah, we could call it our hobby. That just didn’t need subtitles in French, so I can help and it will sell to that.

Andrej Zito

Okay. So actually, the interesting thing is that right now, I have a bunch of questions coming from translators who are trying to do something different. Do you think that? I don’t know going into testing is an easy way for a translator, if you have that background? Or is it more about just being a native in a different light?

Nicolas Gerard

Yeah, mostly being Native in a different language is the first step. Let’s say that’s where you start. And then of course, Yeah, I think I think some translation background always helps if there are testers that they send me a CV and I see that they’ve done translation, like know already that they’re going to be quite good, and they’re gonna get the job faster than someone who has never done any translation.

Andrej Zito

Okay, I know that your your translation experience wasn’t that? I don’t know that huge, but how would you compare the two jobs? If by any chance you could,

Nicolas Gerard

in a way? Well, translation, I would have the English source and translate it myself, while with the current job, at least the localization testing, it’s already translated, I just verify that it’s correct. And that in the context makes sense. And it’s implemented correctly in the application looks good, the text is not cut or anything. So there’s the step of actually translating that is removed from that if you go through localization rather than translation, for me, at least, but there is of course, a localization company that do actually only the translation in the testing withcheck it only.

Andrej Zito

Yeah, I think I think we can expand on that a little bit more. But like, still still wondering about, you know, like, the the translator versus a texture. A lot of the translators mostly work as freelancers. And you mentioned that a lot of your textures are contractors, we should consider contractor kind of like a freelancer in a way.

Nicolas Gerard

Yes, and no, because, for example, when we have testers that are signed through our contractors, some of them have been with us for seven years. So it’s not any more freelance at this point. It’s their kind of regulars. And they know the job and they do that. But we do have some languages that we change that are pretty regularly because they either find another job and can continue helping us or they moved on somewhere else, or they left the country and can’t anymore do the job for us. So yes, and no, I guess the Freelancer part some of them feel like Freelancer like it’s just a small job for them that they do, when they just to get some scratch money, pocket money to go outside. Others take it more seriously and have been with us for years. So.

Andrej Zito

So you will consider them like part of your team?

Nicolas Gerard

Yeah, definitely. There is a good bunch of them that are definitely part of the team. That if one day they decide to leave or move on or something, I will kind of be sad, you will cry, your heart will be defeated.

Andrej Zito

So going back to the the whole Symbio thing that you already touched upon, you know, like there are typical LSPs, who do I don’t know, translation or testing, but your case is different. And like you said that you also do develop is the main reason why I would come to Symbio is because I want to have let’s say my app, develop and test it. So I let say trust your team to do to do pretty much everything to make sure that my app is running fine. Or if I’m, let’s say developing something internally, and I just want to test it especially like for localization. Why would I go to Synbio? If let’s say you don’t specialise in the localization, per se? And why would I choose Symbio? over someone who’s like a typical localization provider that focuses on localization testing? Only? Let’s say?

Nicolas Gerard

That is a good question. Well, the thing is, you can do from beginning to end through Symbio, you can do start at the development, and everything and have the QA and then the testing in different languages and all all streamline in the same company by the same people. So that would make it more interesting, I guess, while if you have to hire one company to do one part one company to do another one company to do the testing when company for the localization and all that makes it a bit more expensive probably.

Andrej Zito

So to your special, I don’t know scenario. The question to me is, okay, so you do the development and also the localization testing. But let’s say let’s say I have an idea for I don’t know, a dating app, the new new Tinder and I want to have it developed by you, but you also do the localization testing, but who actually does the localization would I have to get the localization from somewhere else and then just come back to you?

Nicolas Gerard

We have a partner company called Aquila that is also in Helsinki and we’ve worked with them as partners with multiple customers that we have and we have meetings weekly with them and about some of the work we do for the customers. So we have already someone that can take care of it that we already have not subcontractor I guess with more like partners that where the work right that’s why we need them. Yeah,

Andrej Zito

absolutely. Okay. So I think I think that you you answered the case, which definitely makes sense to me that okay, I want to develop something and then you can also test So I just trust your team. But let’s say I develop something internally. So when would I contact especially using zero responsible for the department? Why would I contact you, if I just wanted to test something in different languages, versus going to, let’s say, a traditional LSP?

Nicolas Gerard

Usually, it’s just because of our experience and the quality of the work we make. People tend to turn to us and then they stay with us. So I guess we’re doing something good, yeah, bigger company that only do localization, I have some colleagues that have moved on and worked in those companies and all and basically, they do the same thing that we can do same service that we provide. So it’s just one of the one extra thing that we can do. while also being able to develop and QA everything. Yeah.

Andrej Zito

I’m not sure if you can answer this question. So just Just tell me if it’s if it’s too much, but I’m wondering whether you have some statistics or data about how many customers do let’s say development and testing and customers that do just localization testing with you, and they do development somewhere else,

Nicolas Gerard

may actually be most of my customers for the localization testing, they develop on their own. There’s just one I think, team that we work with them on the development and the QA as well as the localization. So I guess that would be at 20%, in that case, at develop themselves and ask us to check and 20 we do ourselves. Okay.

Andrej Zito

I see. Okay, good. So now that hopefully, this thing is clear to everyone who’s listening and watching. Let’s start talking about manual testing. You already mentioned some of the things that that you do, but how would you describe manual testing to someone I don’t know, completely new to the industry that doesn’t know anything about software, they don’t know anything about localization? What is manual testing? And what is the purpose or the goal of manual testing? In your own words,

Nicolas Gerard

manual testing, at least in our localization team is, for example, a customer sends us let’s say, a phone application, we will they send us a bill for it. So we instal it on our devices. And then I take care of the test preparation, I read the customer gives us a scope of what they need to be tested, which features they want to have the translation checked, for example. And I prepare all the steps for the testers for for the scope that we are given. And then the testers come and check the areas in the app and all where the translations have been added in their languages. To check that everything is translated correctly, is in context is implemented correctly. And it’s consistent with the rest of the phone and all that like if there are terms for example, like settings, that is the same word that is used in the actual phone settings and all that like to have consistency as well, everywhere. So basically, it’s just using an application and verifying that it works and that the translations are good.

Andrej Zito

To you mostly specialise in apps, or can you test anything? Like if I had? I don’t know, okay, website is maybe still kind of like, like a software thing, but I don’t know, if I had like a documentation, would you still be able to test it or you leave it for someone else?

Nicolas Gerard

Documentation? It’s mostly our partner Aquila does check the documentation, like proofreading kinda kind of thing? Yeah, we mostly apps websites and software’s like we actually like, get our hands dirty. That’s it. Right actually interact with something rather than just read. It has to have like some sort of features working and all that like different screens, different views. It’s not just text. For us at least the testing, I think the that’s pretty different from just proofreading documentation.

Andrej Zito

You mentioned one word that may be not known to end people who you mentioned built. How would you describe what is built? And why is it important for testing?

Nicolas Gerard

Build would be for us the file that a customer sent, for example, with the latest version of an application that is not yet on the market, for example, just the few upcoming one is the new files, the new features and the new translations? So that it’s basically an installation file. That would be the builder. Or could be if it’s a website, it’s just the version of the website that will be uploaded in a few weeks that we can check already because this is the build for it that is now accessible for VR. staging and all that.

Andrej Zito

And going back to the basics, I think I asked this question some time before someone who was doing, like a QA on games, and the games industry. So is there any difference between QA and test? Or is it the same?

Nicolas Gerard

I think it’s the difference between qn QC as well, that QA, it’s that you try to avoid having bugs and defects. So you have a proactive approach. And you while you’re still developing something, you’re trying to avoid having bugs while test or the product is already developed. And you’ll check it after to find the bugs that were emitted during the development. So that’s more of testing, you check once it’s already done. And you you report the bugs that are in it, while QA it’s you, you make sure that no bugs appear inside before itself. Right?

Andrej Zito

So So do you do the testing part only? Or do you also do the proactive,

Nicolas Gerard

mostly testing where we with the customer, at least we get the apps already done. So there’s not really a part where we’re taking part of development, so mostly the testing.

Andrej Zito

So previously, you were saying that you do this thing called Test Case preparation, which to me is kind of like a complete myth, I would like to get to the bottom of that. But maybe let’s start from the from the very high level, this thing called strategy, you know, even strategy, you know, to me, it’s like a big word. Sometimes people just do strategies on their napkin, and they get paid, I don’t know, 200,000 a year to to create a strategy. So I don’t know if you in your role actually have to deal with something like a testing strategy. And if you do, or even if you don’t like what would you understand as a testing strategy? Like, what does that actually mean? Like? How would the strategy for testing look like what what would it cover?

Nicolas Gerard

I guess, by testing strategy, it’s just the whole planning of things. Do you mean, is that?

Andrej Zito

What? That’s the thing that I don’t know what I mean by that, okay. More like interesting rhetoric, whether you use those terms, like let’s say, a client comes to you, and they say, like, hey, we want to see the strategy first. Like, let’s, let’s try to stay like very high level first, before we get down into the nitty gritty. So that’s why I’m asking like about your experience. But if you don’t create something like a strategy, that’s completely fine with me, because I just want to know how it is for you.

Nicolas Gerard

Usually, the customers come to us, like, they know what they’re gonna get, I guess I would say, don’t think I’ve ever used the word strategy for that more like, what’s the planning for it? So we’re gonna first do this, then that and then the results? And

Andrej Zito

so I don’t think the the strategy thing is,

Nicolas Gerard

meaning they expect to have the testing done and nothing. The results delivered on time and all that.

Andrej Zito

But But I guess, then the question is, okay, so if they want to get the testing done, what exactly does that mean? Like? How do you figure out the scope of the testing with the customers? Do they always tell you? Or do you proactively try to suggest what should be tested and

Nicolas Gerard

usually the customer gives us the scope of what they want to have tested. So for example, they would have, they would add a new feature on the website or in an app, and they will have a block of strings that they want to have tested. And they give us the amount of strings that they want tested during that round. And then we check on that. But there are sometimes moments when we do proactive suggestions as well, that said that last time, this part was not that great, can we recheck that one and all and then if they have the budget, they accept to do add back some of the strings to do like some kind of integration testing, to see if the translation that were fixed before don’t mess up anything or still look good or anything like that. Usually, verification also is part of the each round when we report issues. The strings that were failed by the tester that the testers said that this is wrong, the translation should be this. In the next round, they come back automatically in the scope so that we can see that the changes were made, or if they’ll translate or change differently, at least the store can see it and confirm if it’s correct or not.

Andrej Zito

Now, this to me is interesting about the to the quality of the translation. Is it in your experience a standard thing where the testers would suggest or complain about the translation quality? Because in my in my world, there should be steps before it reaches you. You, that should ensure that the quality is there. Of course, some things can always slip. That’s why we have the testing in the first place. But do you are let’s say, Do your customers expect you to, let’s say always focus on the linguistic quality as well? Or is it more like okay, by the way, we noticed this as well, and we think it could be better at translation.

Nicolas Gerard

linguistic issues, at least, it’s basically the most important part actually, for us, like, Okay, first, the tester, check the translations. And, like in priority, let’s say it’s first translation, then if it fits correctly in the phone and all that, like it’s really, they’re mostly actually looking for linguistic books rather than, like functional issues. And we do report that

Andrej Zito

you completely turned my world upside down now.

Nicolas Gerard

Oh, sorry. Let me put it back.

Andrej Zito

Wow. So this is this is interesting. So do they do they tested in? I don’t know two stages, like we first have they look at the translations? Or do they always do you always want them to look at the translations like within the context, like within the actual app? Well,

Nicolas Gerard

we have a file on the computer, depending on which, which application the customer uses, we have customers that use we localised, we have customers that use memo queue. Some, you still use good old fashioned Excel files with just like the lines in one column for each language and all that. But also, we have some customers that have actually developed their own kind of localization testing tools, which we can use where they have all the strings inside the app already. So the tester sees the English source, the translation in his language, and then as the steps are now to reproduce in the application, so he already has seen the translation before the check inside the app. So then they have an idea already what it should be. And if they see in there that it doesn’t make sense. Compared to how to get there. For example, if they click on settings and end up in a menu called the parameters or something like that, then they know that something went wrong in the translation, because it’s not the same consistency and all that. So yeah, the it’s a bit of both like they see the translations before they actually reach them in the app. So then they know already if it’s wrong, alright.

Andrej Zito

That’s interesting, at least in my experience, I’m not sure. And maybe this is another thing that we can talk about, like the types of testing. But from what I know is that, or the way that I even explain it in my course, is that QA is there to, let’s say, play with the app as the as the end user. And it’s mostly focused on like, is it working? Is it doing the same things? Like can you get to the can you get to the same result? I don’t know that as if you took the same steps in, let’s say, English. And the linguistic quality is religious, like, by the way, like, have you noticed anything like you can report it? But we already assumed that the quality is there, during the translation process before the translations made it into the built for testing, okay.

Nicolas Gerard

That to me is like, so different? Yeah, no, for, at least for me, maybe actually, I’m doing it wrong. And nobody told me since the beginning, but the translations is like the, like, let’s say 60 person, part important and 40 person is the testing and of course, because usually the companies we work with at least they have QA teams and all that the tab probably already I run out the issues if there is functional issues in their applications that they know of, at least I see. And when we test we sometimes find new issues and report them as well because we will report linguistic issues but also functional issues when we find some that appear in multiple languages. So that then you know that it’s not an issue with the one language but several and or something like that.

Andrej Zito

But then going back to what you said initially that your let’s say main criteria for someone who has a chance to work as a translator is to be native. So if you are focusing a lot on the linguistic quality, do you also expect them to have some sort of like background like, at least knowing I don’t know, proper grammar in? I don’t know.

Nicolas Gerard

Yeah, usually we have kind of a first interview Yeah. I have an interview with the testers and usually I would say like seeing depending on how they speak English already, you can kind of know if they’re going to be maybe they speak correctly in their language but they just don’t speak English good enough. But most of the time if you don’t manage to make a sentence in English, you probably cannot in your own language for the grammar or spelling and all that that unit. We have testers in the past that that’s through the cracks and the first round of testing they did we send the results back to the translators to the Customer and the translator like, rejected all of the bugs that they did saying like there was a spelling mistake in their correction. The grammar is wrong in the in the correction, you’re like, Ah, okay, let me see one second was the test. So yeah, that’s usually also yet kind of to get to it the if we see if the translator don’t reject most of their books, we can feel confident that they know what they’re doing. So let’s go

Andrej Zito

back to our strategy that doesn’t exist. I want to just kind of like, try to guide people maybe from I don’t know, let’s say from start to finish, like how does it I don’t know, testing project? Do you call it a project? Or

Nicolas Gerard

yet because well, with, with most of the customers, at least they have different applications or like, it’s not just one thing. So each, we call them kind of project, like there is the project a, project B, Project C, and it’s round four for project there and round three for Project B, for example, something like that. So we call them project.

Andrej Zito

Okay, you mentioned the word round, maybe explain to us what the rounds mean, and what why we need more rounds. So does round mean that I’m testing the same thing that I tested before, like it’s round

Nicolas Gerard

to each testing round is for a new part. So let’s say for example, the first round of testing, you’re going to check the whole settings menu in an application. Then in the second round, you should check another part like the about portion of the app and all that. So in each round, usually, we have different kinds of places to check. But also, if the source changes in between, then the strings, each string, if some strings have the source, the English version, usually we have the source in English, that changes in the translation, the string has to go through translation, again, it comes back in, in around of testing later on, so that we can verify that everything is correct. Now,

Andrej Zito

my maybe stupid question is, why would you even want to split something into these rounds? Is it that some features, let’s say, let’s say we have round one and round two? So the things from Round Two are not ready yet for testing? When Round one starts? Or do you just want to for some other reason, break it down into I don’t know smaller chunks?

Nicolas Gerard

Yeah, it can be that it’s not ready yet. Or it can be that it’s a feature that’s not yet available in some countries. So for example, if there is one part that is not going to be available in Germany or something, it’s not necessarily to test it in German. So then we have a separate round, where it’s only the languages where it works, things like that. Like it can be either from new features, or just some some customers on selecting, because of budget reasons. They want to test just one part of the application and not everything. So that becomes one round and the other one later on.

Andrej Zito

Let’s say if I have a project that has a lot of words to translate, I want to let’s say split the translation, let’s say I’m doing a translation from English to French. And now I cannot meet the deadline with just one translator. So I give the work to two translators. But there are always let’s say, some downsides to splitting the translation. How does it work with testing? Do you prefer to have if you can have, let’s say the whole French, I don’t know built tested by just one tester? Or is it normal that you I don’t know somehow split the work within the round into multiple testers if the scope is big?

Nicolas Gerard

No, usually we keep the same test or per language, let’s say it’s, it’s going to be the same test or and if around as a big scope. Usually we just warn the testers in advance like there’s a big roundup coming, would you be available for it? And if not, then we check for another store really fast or something like that. It doesn’t happen a lot that we use two different person for the same thing and usually the same ones kind of stick with us and we just use the same ones for the same

Andrej Zito

things. That’s that’s also interesting.

Nicolas Gerard

And usually you can see also the for what you said that there’s two translators doing the same thing you that’s when if it’s one person testing it, you can see the inconsistency more easily because you you know, you’ve read the first part and then you get to the second part, and you know, that’s not the same word. That’s the same kind of translation the same phrasing or anything,

Andrej Zito

but isn’t it I don’t know too too risky to to rely on just one person. For the quality.

Nicolas Gerard

It can be when It can happen sometimes that you get a tester that is not really reliable. And when you when it’s smaller tasks, they’re fine. And when you get to bigger test, they start to be like, I’m not gonna be able to do this. And so then you have to kind of find, find someone else or tried to negotiate with the tester. And please, can you we will ask for more time, can you do it for us and all that that’s, it’s, it gets tricky, but so far, I’m knocking on wood, but never too much problem was that we managed to find a really good team.

Andrej Zito

Yeah, maybe you have a good recruitment process.

Nicolas Gerard

Could be could be the subcontractors at least do an excellent job usually at finding, sometimes we have requests for languages that you don’t expect them to find out. And they managed to find one super fast, like, let’s say, a Catalan person living in Helsinki that would be able to test Catalan, or something like that.

Andrej Zito

So do you also have some requirements for some projects where two people have to I don’t know, physically, let’s say, I don’t know, come to the office, because of NDA with the client or something could be only tested, I don’t know, within your office or within some location, or, yeah,

Nicolas Gerard

we do have NDAs with all the testers and most of the application that we test the we test them in the office, and it has to be at the office. Well, the last two years, because of COVID. Of course, there we had to kind of take measures. And we managed to do it via sending screenshots instead of having the actual app in the hand, for example. But it’s it was a lot more work, at least for a few of us, that had to take the screenshot. But otherwise, usually at the testers come to the office, and we have devices. It’s been a while since we haven’t had a prototype or anything of a phone or something that is not out yet. But we had that before. So the phones could not leave the premises at all, for example, or prototypes of any not necessarily phones, but other things that we can really put outside of the office. So it’s mostly at the office.

Andrej Zito

And I was checking your profile. I think your last post was about something about Office, like he moved to a new office.

Nicolas Gerard

Yes, I just did it again. Now actually, what I did was this.

Andrej Zito

Okay, so I want to still ask a little bit more about, you know, like trusting the testers, how would you discover that someone is not working out? Because the example I think that you gave is that someone would not be able to take, let’s say, a bigger project, which one is more about, like, their availability or something like that. But if somebody is, you know, there are some people who are like really like eager eager to do something, they actually do it, but they don’t do it that well. So how would you actually test a tester? Or how do you know if the tests are actually delivers a good good stuff?

Nicolas Gerard

While usually they would go through at least a round of testing, and then the customer would tell us we have good communication with the customers usually. So at least if there are issues with one of the languages, they will tell us like, this language at a lot of corrections that were rejected by the translator saying that the corrections were bad. So then, I would kind of try to talk with the tester saying, like, can you be a bit more attentive next time? Or like the, if the translator company, the our partner company tells us what kind of issues the testers usually with new testers, they are eager to please, let’s say so they find every single issue possible they can and the translator can be like, Okay, those are more like preferential improvements. Can you tell the testers not to reveal that anymore, and all that. So then the I have a conversation with the tester, and if they don’t seem to understand after another round, we can try to find someone else.

Andrej Zito

Okay, but I’m thinking, okay, so this is one, one case where you get a feedback from the translators. But what I’m thinking more is on the on the, let’s say, the functional site, let’s say for some reason, only the, I’m still going to use French for the rest of this interview. But let’s say the French app has some very critical bugs that I don’t know, like, once you get to some very deep level of functionality, or somewhere deep within the system, it just crashes. And it was it was part of the testing, but for some reason that the tester who was doing it just doesn’t go there or just they just pass it, even though they don’t check it. And then it’s the users, the actual end users of the app who discovered us. Yeah, so can you even prevent these things somehow? Or is it really just about the trust?

Nicolas Gerard

Well, usually during this preparation, at least Stay up through application in English, but I kind of go into all those menus myself, just to see if I find before even starting the localization testing around if I find any functional issues in the app, so then I can send it back to the customer saying that the build is not working great. Can we get them better build an updated version or something. But sometimes it happens that we get functional issues that someone internal to the the customer company as the received by an end user feedback on the app, that something is not working, then they come back to us and say, like, didn’t you see that it was not working? And that’s usually when I check with the tester like, didn’t you see it was not working?

Andrej Zito

What would be the follow up? Okay, so you asked the tester about this, like, didn’t she see this? And I don’t know, like, what what will be the I don’t know the expected reaction? Or how would you make sure that next time they actually do a proper job? Or would you? Would you try it on your own whether they could have caught it?

Nicolas Gerard

Yeah, I would at least try on my own to see if it was something that because if, for example, the scope, the strings that were in scope, were not leading to that part, that does not work, then it’s not really the fault of the tester, because that part wasn’t to be checked anyway. Right. But if it was part of the scope and all, then I would definitely check with the tester like how come you didn’t check that part, which was in the scope, and maybe change the Distort, if it seems that they just didn’t do the job correctly at all? dependent, of course, if it’s a huge critical issue yet, then you kind of have to replace the test or apologise to the customer. And sorry, I thought that tester was good, but turns out he wasn’t. But

Andrej Zito

the thought that I had about I don’t know, like checking if somebody is thoroughly testing something, is maybe do you do check the number of bucks that each language reports and maybe if I don’t know, 10, languages report, I don’t know, 100 bucks. And for the one language person reports only, I don’t know, 50 or 20 bucks, that it’s like a warning signal to you.

Nicolas Gerard

Depends, actually, because we have lots of languages where the translations are correct, and the app works. So they have a minimum number of issues. And then there’s one language like, let’s say, Dutch, that has like, a problem on every sentence. And then the translator report everything that it’s doing formal way, it should be formal, blah, blah, blah, blah, etc. So then, usually, for each language, there is about maybe 5% issues. On each scope. If there is 100 strings to test, they have usually five to 10, issues, bugs in the language or functional. But it does happen that everything is a password tester. And that, while it just worked fine. So what can we say? The translator did a good job and the app works.

Andrej Zito

So going back all the way to the beginning process, and you mentioned the test preparation right now. And I would assume that if we don’t do any fancy things like a strategy, then that’s how you would start. And this to me was always a mystery, like, how do you actually build test cases? And maybe you can also explain what the test cases are? Let’s say a client comes to you with a new feature. Do you expect them to give you some kind of like a guideline, like how to build the whole testing plan? Or is it just like what you mentioned that you just try to play with the app and try to discover it on your own?

Nicolas Gerard

I guess it’s a bit of both. But usually, when good with our customers, at least the they have for each string, there is a description part where it kind of says where you should find the strings in the app. But one of the most the tools that is the most easy to find anything is the usual in the string ID, the logical ID, you have kind of the path of this. If there is a string that is in the settings of an app, like say settings appearance menu, usually the logical idea would say settings appearance. So you kind of just go to the settings then check appearance menu, and then you can find the strings that you’re looking for. So usually the description, the logical id plus kind of like you said, playing with it, looking for it. That’s a good mix to to usually find the steps to get there. test cases. And as you’re saying the test cases, well, usually the steps, for example, to a certain place in the application, like open application, go to Settings, go to this menu and check, there is five strings on that view, and then just check those five strings. That would be like a common way and just like steps leading to, for the district to find what you’re, you want them to find.

Andrej Zito

And from what I understand, it seems to me like the whole approach is really string based, you can get a bunch of string that you need to kind of like a test. But then, of course, you have sometimes I don’t know, you have like a screen with many strings, right? So do you do group them, like based on let’s say, the same location, and you then turn that into a test case? Like, let’s say, I will have a test case that goes to I don’t know about, about the company or something like that about the app. And there you check the multiple strings? Or is it really just you go string by string and you create, I don’t know the steps to go to that one for each string?

Nicolas Gerard

No, usually we can group them with some of the programmes we use, we can group where they are, so that you can see like, also on this view, and then you have the list of strings that are appearing at the same place, we can link them together. So that it’s easier for the tester, then it’s not the same steps repeated 15 times that they have to start from scratch every single string. Like if they see that all the strings are in the same view, then it’s it says on the test case that

Andrej Zito

it’s all there. Okay, so how do you build test cases, for testing functionality,

Nicolas Gerard

we can do sometimes also some, there is a term for it, which I just forgot, I added just a second ago. But where we just like test an application, but without a real real list of strings, let’s say just like check those five views. And you open the one menu, you open another menu and all and then you check that everything is okay on each screen that there is no truncation or layout issues or anything with the language. So it depends on the customer, some sometimes one round will be just specific, test those five strings, and sometimes it can be like, check the whole settings view, for example, in every language, so then we have the testers just go and check the whole settings view. And if everything is displayed correctly, they’re just okay, that’s fine.

Andrej Zito

And talking about like the whole preparation or planning, the result of test kit preparation, first of all, like to have the set of test cases that you want to be testing in that round.

Nicolas Gerard

Yeah, that this preparation, I just prepare for the scope, given all the steps to get them so that the destiny is just as simple. as straightforward as it is they just follow the steps and they find what they’re looking forward.

Andrej Zito

Right. Right. How do you budget the whole thing? And I’m not not mostly interested in in the dollar amount, but like, how much time with people need to test it? Like, can you? Do you have some metric or some formulas? Or is it just based on your experience when you’re preparing the test cases?

Nicolas Gerard

Yeah, there is some sort of formula but mostly experience, like I think on some of our contracts, we have a certain amount of string would be an hour, for example. So that then when, when the they give us a scope, and it’s like 200 strings, they know that it’s a certain amount of our minimum per tester. Right? Right. And then the there is on top of that the test management, the hourly rate, which is my job, and that’s how we budget.

Andrej Zito

Okay, next question that I have here is, again, more like a general thing. I know the term smoke testing, which hopefully you can also help to explain. But I’m wondering what kind of different types of testing people can do or like, companies, or what kind of different type of testing Do you offer to the, to the customers? So so far, it seems that mostly we’re focusing on I don’t know, like, let’s say the the linguistic thing you do as part of localization testing, but as part of localization testing, we also mentioned functional testing with kind of different types of tests.

Nicolas Gerard

Well, since usually they give us a scope of what they want to test that I guess we kind of have already the scope that they want us to check, we can do smoke testing, smoke testing is just you open each view quickly just to see that the app works correctly. For example. While we would check more precisely the strings rather than just an over All, sometimes we have the companies, the customers that told us to check if the quality of the translation overall is good, but as part of a smoke testing, and I’m not a big fan of that, because you can truly check everything just by looking at it quickly at a glance, I think it has to be a bit more thorough. And so yeah, since usually our customer come with their own scope, we don’t get the chance to that much smoke testing for them.

Andrej Zito

You also mentioned integration testing, what exactly is integration testing.

Nicolas Gerard

So you have an application version one, and then in version two, they add some bigger parts on top of it. And you kind of have to just still check the version one still works with version two on top of it, or things like that, just as the application they add features to any application, you have to check that the previous features still work, while the new things are there. So that would be integration testing. Again, sometimes adding new things, because it’s the old things do not work as good as it

Andrej Zito

did before. Then another fancy term that I know is load testing, we also do load testing, and what does it mean?

Nicolas Gerard

It’s just like a specific part of the app that you test. Isn’t that it load testing.

Andrej Zito

From what I know, load testing is to test if the app breaks, if you have a lot of let’s say requests coming in.

Nicolas Gerard

So you try to make it fail to make it crash on purpose. Yeah, no, we’ve actually never done that. That must be fun, though.

Andrej Zito

Okay. I guess the apps on the phone, you know, like, they probably contact the server somewhere. Maybe if you are like a startup, maybe you don’t have budget for so many servers to support all the requests. So maybe the load testing, like kind of like simulates that, okay, like, if I don’t know, 1000s people around the world at the same time with I don’t know, swipe right or swipe left? Can the server take all that information before it crashes?

Nicolas Gerard

Don’t do that, at least with my team. But that must be fun. I know, there were people doing stress testing of some of the devices and like basically throwing a phone on the wall for hundreds of times just to see if it could survive or not. And that’s something like, Can we do that?

Andrej Zito

Okay, let’s move a little bit more towards the part where the testers Find box what do you expect them to to report? How does it test to report a good bug?

Nicolas Gerard

Jelly we there is a several type of issues have bugs that they can find. So there’s first of all, the first part would be either if it’s a linguistic issue, if it’s an internationalisation issue, or if it’s a functional issue. And when they pick one of those three,

Andrej Zito

yes, we can you explain what what does internationalisation type of bugs mean in this in this context,

Nicolas Gerard

at least in that context? It would be that for example, the translation is wrong, but it’s because there is something wrong with the source like rather than the it’s not the translation that is the issue. It’s it was at the beginning the context of the source of the for example, if if a translation says to press a button to do a thing, and the English actually says Do not press the button, for example, then that’s clearly not the translators fault. That’s the from the source at the beginning. If there are any issue that have been for example, a truncation or layout issue appears in the source usually it will appear in all the languages after that so that’s that’s where there should have been fixed at first. And yeah, then if they pick different first type, which would be linguistic, then there is a type that open a different little drop down menu where there is like incorrect translation grammar or spelling. The variable issue if there is a variable that wasn’t copied correctly in the translation anything there one of them one that is more commonly used would be improvement, meaning that the source is the translation is not necessarily wrong, but the translator as a more common way to say it or something like that. So they would fail it as a as an improvement. And then they choose the severity like from minor, moderate major, critical issue

Andrej Zito

Do you have some guidelines for that, like, based on like, like what kind of defects with

Nicolas Gerard

the programmes that we use or even in the Excel back in the days and all we had those already set in the in the file. So usually when I trained the tester, the first round, let’s say I showed them all of that. Like, then if you pick that you can pick one of those, you pick the severity, and then you explain to give a correction, and then explain why it was wrong. And call it in, in the same package, let’s say, if you click on past and it moves to the next one, and you don’t have to worry about it, that’s when you click on fail. If there is an issue, then it opens that submenu of

Andrej Zito

maybe I wasn’t clear, I was I was just asking you about the guidelines for the severity. Like, you know, like, because like some people can think about like, Okay, this bug is critical for them. But maybe for some it’s,

Nicolas Gerard

yeah, usually, I would ask them to use common sense, like, hey, there’s not often a really critical issue in the translations, let’s be honest. Right? Right. Right. But if there is something really like it insults the user, instead of saying, like, press play or something, then yes, that could be a critical problem. That has never happened, thankfully. But yeah, usually I ask them to use common sense. And also, just before sending the results to the customer, I do my own QA of the results. So I, if I see that, in their comment, they explain like the translation was correct. But there is a better way to say it, but they have put it as a major issue. It’s like not, not really major. Considering your other comment that said that it was not a big issue, you can put major as the issues, then I adjust if there is need of adjusting, then delivered to the customers

Andrej Zito

to do you actually have to like yourself, check all the issues. I’m sorry, box reported by the testers for all the languages?

Nicolas Gerard

I do. Yeah, just be the that’s part of my this management tasks, let’s say like, when I get all the results I I verify on so like if there are some functional issues that this app does not work at all, when we do this, I do test myself just to see like, did they reproduce something wrong? Or is it really an issue, and then I report the functional bugs myself, on gyro or whatever place they’re using. So then I’ve done it myself, and I know what I’m talking about, rather than just trust the tester that you said it doesn’t work. So it doesn’t work.

Andrej Zito

If you’re checking all the boxes, like how many bucks Do you check a day? For

Nicolas Gerard

example, like I said, if there is only like 510 issues per language, if if a round of testing is for example, only testing 15 languages, then it it will it takes a few hours for sure. But it doesn’t take that that longer. For that at least I tried to counter a day or two for the QA part of the results where I check that everything is under control, that the comments make sense and all that. And if I have questions I sent back to the store asking, Could you elaborate a bit on that and things like that? Because I try not to accept a comment that says just it was wrong? That’s not very,

Andrej Zito

right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually, actually speaking about that, you mentioned that. The next thing like after they fill out the fields, you want them to say like what should be the correct or expected thing like the translation or whatever, and to provide some reasoning, but what do you do for the for?

Nicolas Gerard

If there is functionally issues, when they pick the functional category in the first place, then it opens another drop down menu that has like, wrong implemented string truncation. The characters not displayed correctly, for example, if there is some, like Chinese are example and instead of Chinese, you see just little squares, something like that. That’s characters not implemented or something like that. So then, there are a few categories. And there’s the last one, which is like other and then in the comment, explain like exactly what happens or what it shows away. If the app crashes when you click on the button, they explain like, what is exactly the issue, so then I can report it to the customer.

Andrej Zito

Okay, I see. And how about cream shots or videos? Is it is it a standard that you require for each buck? Report it or is it is it not that mandatory

Nicolas Gerard

for the link? Functional bugs? Yes, I usually add a screenshot in gyro slash JIRA slash whichever however it’s pronounced. But for linguistic bugs usually that don’t necessarily need a screenshot for each of them like the tester just because we have the source and the text. So the tester and the translator can just correct it there. And the translator doesn’t necessarily need to see the screenshot, showing him how he was wrong. You already see it in the file, you don’t have to have a screenshot showing you how you’re wrong. Added to that. Right, right. Right, right. Right. Right. Right.

Andrej Zito

But about the about the functional box, do you would Wouldn’t you prefer videos that like show like, I don’t know how it crashes? Or a screenshot enough?

Nicolas Gerard

It depends. If it’s something like the screen flickers or something like that, then yeah, you would need a video because you can’t really take a screenshot of that. But usually, since most of the functional bugs are layout issue, or things like that, I would just take a screenshot of that, where you see that it’s displayed wrong.

Andrej Zito

Make sense? Speaking about these these things? Do you have any prefer tools that you suggest people to use for screenshots or for video, especially like on mobile,

Nicolas Gerard

and mobile, usually just pressing like, the lock button and volume down or an iPhone, the front button home button in the lock button at the same time work? So usually just doing that is enough? If not just there is like the screen capture tool that you can get in the notification bar at the top? You can just film what’s happening on the screen. Okay, so it’s already implemented already in the devices. So yeah.

Andrej Zito

Okay, so that’s enough. But for desktop, like do you have anything for desktop

Nicolas Gerard

edges, the good old window crop thing, like the application gets native in window? For right, taking a snap of the screen.

Andrej Zito

And for the videos,

Nicolas Gerard

videos, we have a few tools. Yeah. I haven’t used any in a while. So I don’t exactly remember which but it was some simple apps that you can download on the internet pretty easily.

Andrej Zito

Okay. And also, since you’re talking about the tools, let’s talk about the gyro. So, are you using JIRA? Because it’s let’s say your preferred system four bucks? Or is it driven by the customers,

Nicolas Gerard

mostly driven by the customer, we have some customers that use Bugzilla, some that use JIRA gyro. And like, depending on the customer, we use what they are used to internally.

Andrej Zito

And what would be your preference.

Nicolas Gerard

I would say I’m used to JIRA mostly like it’s easier to just like fill all the forms that are important. Add the description and all that, like, I used to remember Bugzilla, there was some aspects of it that were like very slow that you had to do a lot of copy pasting and all that rather than just copy every information in the next book right away. So at least enjoy writes easier for that. You can do multiple, big multiple bugs and edit them at the same time rather than have to go back and forth in each one.

Andrej Zito

Okay, good. Now, final set of questions that I have for you is about the role of a localization tester. Do you do you actually remember how you started as a localization tester? Did you just send application and are selected because you were French? Or?

Nicolas Gerard

Yeah, I had found in Finland, they have a website where they post older job offers and all that. And I had just typed French in the description so that it looks for everything that has the word French in it, just in case there is some translation work. And there was so then I, I applied, and I had an interview with them. And since they were I said that they had a bachelor degree for translation. They were like, well, if it involves translation as well. Then yeah, I got the job.

Andrej Zito

Do you think that starting as a tester is, I don’t want to dis to sound bad, but it’s, it’s easier than I don’t know. Maybe like starting as a, I don’t know, manager or something like that. Like the requirements are not that big, because like initially we were talking about like being a native in certain language is one of the key things is there. Is there more to it or

Nicolas Gerard

not necessarily, at least for localization. It’s definitely good to start as desktop because you You know what, like, it’s not the bottom of the barrel, let’s say, but it’s just like you know what the basic parts will be. And then when you work in higher function, you know what the, the ones at the bottom have to do? Because for example, there are definitely some people that are directly as a manager that has no idea what the other people do. And it’s usually better if you know what other people under you are doing in that aspect.

Andrej Zito

Right. But other than being Native, what are you looking for? Both you pick your team, I understood that and you are quite happy with them. Yeah, but what else matters? Because, you know, like, everyone in this world is native in some language, but I guess not, not all of them would make a good texture. So what else are you looking for? When you’re picking?

Nicolas Gerard

Usually, if they’re a bit tech savvy, that definitely helps. Like, if there is a tester that is, let’s say 70 years old, that applies for language, and you know that they cannot use a phone, for example. Or they open their phone in front of you, and there is 70 different browser open, you know that it’s not going to be a match.

Andrej Zito

Okay. Wait, wait, that is actually an interesting thing. Because I know, I know a lot of PMS, actually, they have so many tabs open. I also end up like, I’m very mad mad at that. And then I try to close them. Because I think you should just focus on on the one thing that you’re doing,

Nicolas Gerard

since there’s always one that plays music, and you don’t know which one it is, and it’s a headache.

Andrej Zito

So why is it a warning sign for you, if somebody has many tabs open?

Nicolas Gerard

Though, it was more about the tech savvy part. Usually, I know, there is memes about that, like, for example, when you visit your parents, and so your parents send you a photo and there is like 15 different app open in the background. That

Andrej Zito

is your union.

Nicolas Gerard

Budget, it is definitely better to have less things open and focus on the one thing at hand. Even if sometimes I have a list of 15 books, I open them all in tabs, and then I check them one by one. But you still have everything open on the

Andrej Zito

random background. Do you somehow test in the in the process how people can report the bucks? Like let’s say if their reasoning, you mentioned that? That was one of the key things, you know, like, explain to me like why this is a mock? Do you test that? Like how? Well they can explain it in English?

Nicolas Gerard

Yeah, well, like I was saying, usually during the first interview, I tried to I realise if they can kind of have a conversation in English, and then can probably write in English, if they’re looking forwards are not really sure about themselves, you know that they’re not going to be able to give you detailed information about why something is a bug or not. So usually during the first interview, and can be firing them you can know if someone is going to be a good match on it. Depending on how to speak correctly, in the first place English

Andrej Zito

I see what do you think is the most challenging thing of being a tester you weren’t tester yourself. So is it is it do you think it’s a job that you can easily burn, burnout and burnout?

Nicolas Gerard

And not necessarily. Actually the challenge for me at the time and for a lot of testers I know is that it’s there can be a month where there is like five rounds of testing. And there can be a month where there is just one. And it’s only 20 strings to check. So that it’s like most of the tests are being paid by the hour. I understand that when there is a month when there’s not that much work. It’s not great for them. And so the challenging part is not distress but it’s on the contrary, like the lack of work. Sometimes I would, I would say I remember at least when being a tester that I wanted to just call the manager every time like is there something coming or another?

Andrej Zito

Would you suggest something that freelancers are doing because freelancers typically have multiple clients right that they’re waiting for, just because of this reason. So do you suggest the same thing for tester like if I want to be a full time? I don’t know tester that’s not hired by a company. But um, like the contract the

Nicolas Gerard

better to have several customers are definitely.

Andrej Zito

Okay. And my final question that I have here is, again, this could be based on my experience when I was doing localization for something different The much more preferred when I was doing, let’s say, localization of the infamous Windows Vista. I was working on that one.

Nicolas Gerard

I’m sorry.

Andrej Zito

But at least it was something that I’m using, right? Because I’m using Windows, you know, yes. But when I was working on localization of something that may be the number one, I don’t know, tool or software for something that I have never used before. Like, I don’t know, like doing cat design or something like that. Wasn’t that invested? So my question is, for testing, like, do you think it’s better if I’m testing something that I have no personal interest in. And maybe because of that I can, I don’t know, devote more attention to it, or you think it just doesn’t matter. And it’s more about attention to detail in general. It is

Nicolas Gerard

definitely better when you work on something that you are familiar with, or like or use even yourself, because, yeah, we’ve had testing before for, let’s say, companies that do sports watches, or things like that, and all the different sports that you can do with the sports channel, and that you have to test if every mode works correctly. And like, I don’t do a lot of cross country skiing, for example. So testing that part, the application doesn’t mean a lot to me. But still making sure that the translation were okay, at least you’re using simulators and all that, of course, I was not doing cross country skiing myself.

Andrej Zito

And that sounds very interesting. designs, you have other similar interesting requests. And how do you how do you simulate cross country screen like well, they

Nicolas Gerard

usually give us a tool or an emulators or something like that, so that it gives data to the application so that it thinks that you’re doing that. But for example, when testing apps that are GPS and all that we don’t give us a car to drive around, like usually we have, like JSON file is that we just slide in the application. And then it just imitates a router, or things like that. I see, unfortunately,

Andrej Zito

unfortunately, yeah. But I mean, we’re all was all this technology available when you start this thing?

Nicolas Gerard

No, there are a lot of things that slowly evolved here. When I started testing, I think it was the first iPhones or like the second or third generation, let’s say now your phone can do pretty much everything. So it’s it’s a really different world. We used to test even on phones that still had like actual physical buttons and a pad and all that. So yeah, things definitely evolved since I started. And now there are lots of things that are, for example, for testing application, there are some where we don’t even need an actual phone, we can do it on a web based computers. application, for example, where you have, you can pick which phone you wanted to emulate, and then you just have the phone on your screen. And that’s it. So that’s definitely very different. You

Andrej Zito

prefer that, is it? Is it easier? Or is it just too sexy, it’s

Nicolas Gerard

easier for like, let’s say dispatching the tester, the tester where they can do it from home or something, then you know, that will be probably done faster than when you have to schedule everybody to come to the office and all that, that when there is around a new website, for example, you know that I send the rest of the task. Now it can be done by the day, a day or two while when you have 30 languages to text to test, let’s say you have to have 30 people coming to the office, it’s going to take a bit longer than if everybody gets it at home.

Andrej Zito

Okay, now, finally, you were saying that how things develop? So I’m trying to see how I can tie this to the next question. So how your curious curiosity developed over the years is that maybe maybe a stupid segue. So let me just say, I know a few things about you like, like, what are your hobbies? But I’m wondering, what are you curious about right now?

Nicolas Gerard

Definitely about the technologies evolving and all that. And the yesterday for example, we had dinner with some of our customers and all and they were talking about applications, which are now on the screens that open like the latest Samsung phones that are like the screen actually like it’s a touchscreen, but that’s actually open so you can have a flat site or an entire and they want to know like, do we have like the apps that can adapt to the screen when it’s trigger and things like that. And you’re like, I never thought of that. Hmm. So that more text can be displayed if it’s in the big mode, rather than this moment. In the like, this is the cover, this is not the phone, but now the screen can be either just flat, or I see the whole thing. I see Oh, yeah. And that’s, that’s something that’s like, I wonder how they’re gonna deal with that in the upcoming months when everybody will start to get those phones and then it will be the normal one to have. And every application will have to have two modes where it’s like one screen or two screen. Right? Like, that’s a while yeah. When we started to have, for example, the first the first Windows Phone back then the Lumia phones from Nokia, and things like that, it was, Wow, this is all new. We can test that and play with it. While nobody knows about it yet. It’s always nice to play with new toys, let’s say.

Andrej Zito

Right? Oh, of course. Of course. Of course. But But are you interested in tech? I mean, outside of your

Nicolas Gerard

work? Yeah, sure. Let go not the war to do games and entertainment things mostly, but also with computer and phone, the technology keeper? Keeping informed about it?

Andrej Zito

What is something that people seem to miss understand about you? And maybe just to rephrase the question, in case it’s not clear, which I wouldn’t be surprised. Actually, I have an idea about getting about the answer. Not that I thought about it. But just to just to give you the context is that so you work with, I don’t know, let’s say a lot of textures, and you interview them. And they probably have some first impression of you, right? Or like, even if you meet people outside or if you meet clients, or just new people outside of work. So they don’t know make up some assumption about you like how he couldn’t be. And then after some time, they are like, oh, like, I thought you were like this, but you were like the complete opposite. So that’s what I mean, when I say like, what people misunderstand about you, like, you give this impression, or maybe even after some time, but like deep down, you’re, you know that you’re completely different? Is there something like that for you?

Nicolas Gerard

I think you even mentioned that. When I reply to you on LinkedIn, you’re saying I thought you would be super serious. That actually made me think after I was like, how many people must like, just think that I’m a total idiot

Andrej Zito

was the first one who said it? Or did you had this?

Nicolas Gerard

No, actually, I’ve heard that before as well. So I don’t know if I ever read an exterior that looks. Yes, exactly.

Andrej Zito

Like, like, we should just cut the part where you I don’t know, make some some joke, because you’d like to do a lot of

Nicolas Gerard

No, yeah, usually when the testers come for the first time, they’re a bit like nervous or something I know, like, usually making a joke or something like that kind of breaks the ice really fast. And then we can move on to

Andrej Zito

Yeah, you should put that on LinkedIn. But I was too even thinking about it. It could be just my own personal trauma from the past. When I was working further, when I was working for the for the second company, I think one of my colleagues kind of looked like you he may have such a big bear, but he was also like, like a big tall guy. And I think he used to, I wouldn’t say bully me a little bit, but our collaboration wasn’t very smart. So I think maybe that’s another reason why I was kind of like a schedule reporting

Nicolas Gerard

to HR at least.

Andrej Zito

So talking about yourself, and this is the question that a lot of people struggle with. So I’m wondering what you are going to say, Are there any absurd or stupid things that you do? That let’s say majority of the people in the world would say, that’s crazy, but for you, it’s like a normal thing.

Nicolas Gerard

A lot of people would probably believe that I am financially irresponsible because I buy lots of toys and things like that. But that’s my thing.

Andrej Zito

What What kind of toys

Nicolas Gerard

mostly like action figures and things that are that iser I added my childhood like made me happy as a child. So I get them to be happy as an adult to try to get that small happiness that you can write that amount or new things that are nice and shiny and that I want to play with to touch. No, I also take photography of toys and all that like a nice toy photography with your images and backgrounds and all that and lightnings and although it’s pretty fun is as a hobby at least. It’s interesting and fun for me. Hmm, what should we Music and a couple of other stuff watch way too much series and movies that a lot of people consider a waste of time I guess but

Andrej Zito

right should they even ask you house of the dragons or ring of Rings of Power? House of the Dragon smart like everybody gets you really? Oh yeah, well there’s a lot of shit tonne of critics of complaints and one of the reasons that I haven’t watched it yet I’m really into house of the Dragons right now and yeah, we watched it yesterday in the new episode I really like it. Yeah, but I also heard some a lot of positive things about Lord of the Rings like I’m not a huge like Tolkien fan like I’m not sure if you are

Nicolas Gerard

well I grew up when the movies were out and all that just I imagine you did. So I saw the first three movies and all that I had read the books after that because I was into it but but I didn’t start as buy the books I started with the movies and then read the books. Yeah.

Andrej Zito

So about the action figures so is there any utility with the figures

Nicolas Gerard

zero

Andrej Zito

or is it or is it just that you just displayed somewhere and that yeah, just fine art?

Nicolas Gerard

Yeah, basically it is and there was actually some that in the end end up having more value later so that in the end, it’s like literally an investment?

Andrej Zito

Yeah, yeah. Do you have any anything favourite that you collect? Or is about the shiny the level of

Nicolas Gerard

it’s mostly like either from series or movies that I like if there is some sort of merch I would try to get some are mostly from comic books and like Batman, for example, being one of my bigger elements in the collection. Let’s say I have lots of Batman related things.

Andrej Zito

So yeah, you should have put on some Do you have a Batman t shirt?

Nicolas Gerard

I have one in the back so

Andrej Zito

I also have one so we should have put it on instead

Andrej Zito

of Batman

Nicolas Gerard

it was the Batman day just Sunday I think are really Saturday. Yeah. Oh actually rewatched the first two the Tim Burton movies the

Andrej Zito

Okay. Is that your most favourite one? Or do you do you prefer the Nolan ones?

Nicolas Gerard

I used to love really love the Dark Knight one at least the Dark Knight Rises never did because it looks kind of bad and have a Batman Begins was great. But it was taking a lot of liberties. Let’s say the Tim Burton when we’re taking lots of liberties as well. So it’s not really fair to compare like that. But since I grew up with the Keaton and then Kilmer and Clooney were and even if they were terrible, I was a kid back then. So for me, it was great. So those are the ones that that your whole a whole new special place in my heart, let’s say.

Andrej Zito

But But to me, I think my first like main title or interest with the house is called the Batman The Animated

Nicolas Gerard

Series animated series. Yes, definitely.

Andrej Zito

Same sort of like super good.

Nicolas Gerard

That’s I still love them I rewatched recently, actually the whole thing and it still holds up. And to this day, if you read a comic book or anything, it’s the voice that you hear, at least in your head that Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill for the Joker and all that that’s the voices that they are in my head when I read it. So yeah, all right.

Andrej Zito

Okay, now let’s take a little bit of a darker turn my notorious question. What do you think is wrong with our industry? And by that, I mean, localization? I think

Nicolas Gerard

there is a lot of misunderstanding from a lot of companies and all that, that think that they don’t need. localization, or localization testing, at least for me even because I know lots of companies just like, we don’t have budget for it. So we’ll just skip the testing part. And you’re like, Yeah, but then it looks bad in five languages that’s on you. Like that’s not. So there’s a lot of like, people don’t think it’s as useful as it is. And that is sad. Like, understanding that if you have an app that is translated in five or six different languages and can be opened by people around the world, 1000 more people around the world is definitely working for you than against you. So why would you think that it’s stupid to have a localization that’s just Yeah, it’s probably miss understood that they think it’s just translation. But it’s a bit more than that.

Andrej Zito

So if you could speak to the minds of everyone in the industry, or maybe the people that that that thing that testing and localization is nonsense, what would you tell them? Well,

Nicolas Gerard

don’t take shortcuts like do do not, for example, use Google translation to translate an application and then just send it to testing so that they can fix all the mistakes. That’s not how it should be. You should have a real localization team taking care of things.

Andrej Zito

Right. Yeah. All right. Is there anything that I you think I should have asked you, but I didn’t

Nicolas Gerard

know I guess you’ve been pretty thorough.

Andrej Zito

You share to the world.

Nicolas Gerard

localise things.

Andrej Zito

Yeah. All right. Well, Nicholas, thank you very much for the for the interview. It was nice learning. You’re welcome. And you’re thirsty. Thank you for having me with you. And it was fun, and All right. Awesome. Enjoyed it. Thank you and see you some other time. Bye. Bye.

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